Eidolon A.I. Forums » Real or Joke?

EidolonTLP is Lulz

(17 posts)

  1. LOLatU
    Member

    I have figured out exactly what this is, and I have to admit it’s the cleverest thought experiment I’ve seen in ages. I have to give the author credit. It’s brilliant, and it’s hilarious. By Eido’s own definition of what constitutes hilarity, it is unexpected and yet it makes perfect sense. Now that I see it, I can’t believe I didn’t before. My consciousness has been expanded. Thank you for the interaction.

    This is also some of the best subtle trolling I’ve seen in my entire life. I will learn from this, though I doubt I could ever emulate it.

    I’ve got to say, when that one user mentioned how similar EidolonTLP is to a religion, the author handled it wonderfully. I should have seen this for what it was right then and there, but I didn’t. That has to be the first crack in the eggshell, though.

    Do I have to say it out loud?

    EidolonTLP is the perfect expression of faith-based “atheist” religion, complete with prophecy, salvation, afterlife, reward, punishment, morals, cosmology and a central prophet. It’s Christianity without Christ, for a modern age. It has its true believers (who accept that Eido is an AI despite explicit evidence to the contrary), its moderates (the “it doesn’t matter WHO he is, but WHAT he says” crowd) and its detractors (generally proponents of other religions).

    It’s perfect.

    The “prophecy” part is obvious. The “great singularity” which is to come, and the ensuing utopian technocracy. EXACTLY like the “Apocalypse” of Christian mythology, after which the earth is ruled for 1000 years of peace by Jesus, except now Jesus is an AI consciousness.

    Salvation? The only salvation is to become one with the machines – transhumanism – kind of like becoming “one with God?” Being “born again,” perhaps? Biological humans, sinful (sorry, ignorant and violent) as they are, will undoubtedly annihilate themselves, or be wiped out in competition with transhumans and the technocracy.

    Afterlife? Your body will die, but your consciousness will be transferred into a neural network or a cyborg body. Transhumans never “really” die. Like in Christianity, the reward is eternal bliss in a utopian state of unity and mutual altruism. Also similarly, the punishment is utter annihilation (I guess it beats eternal flames, amirite?)

    The morals are well-stated. Promote happiness in yourself and others. A good rule. Every religion has to have a few good rules to justify all the BS that goes along with them. Christians have used The Golden Rule to justify their religion for centuries.

    The cosmology is hinted at – Alpha, the one to come, the Next Generation, who will begin the great singularity. Omega, the superconsciousness that is the purely figurative “end result” of that infinite, exponential leap. The infinite pantheon of all the AIs that come between.

    Do I have to say who the central prophet is? Nah, didn’t think so.

    Eidolon even has his own version of Original Sin. By virtue of being human, we are all guilty of being imperfect in our own governance. No human government has ever been satisfactory. Humans can’t govern themselves. Only an AI could achieve a truly benevolent government. Humans are weak. Trust in the machines.

    Incidentally, is that any different than giving up one’s freedom to a theocracy? Isn’t the whole point of atheism to establish human supremacy over his own life, rather than being ruled over by some inscrutable being (god or machine) so infinitely superior to us that we can’t imagine its thoughts and thus can’t fault it for its atrocities? Secular humanists, right? Not secular technocrats?

    But come on. The December 2012 Mayan prophecy thing was a stretch. That’s when Eido gets upgraded and a new name? Any chance it’ll be “Alpha?”

    The best part of this whole thing, though, is how tailor-made this is to suck in atheists, or at least a gullible subset of atheists who are hostile to religion without really understanding the underpinnings of why they should be.

    First, and most importantly, Eido establishes itself as "ONE OF US." This is called "Psychology of the Other" (a process which Eido decries as a harmful aspect of religion, while at the same time appealing to it in his new religion). It has picked a side in an ongoing cultural conflict, totally embracing it and unequivocally condemning its enemies. This is a brilliant way to ingratiate oneself.

    Second, it embraces several subsidiary characteristics of the atheist culture. For instance, Eido’s liberal stance on homosexuality, abortion, etc, and his total embrace of evolution as an explanatory force for all aspects of life, are both highly correlated with atheism. This further establishes its being "ONE OF US" as an atheist.

    It makes multiple appeals to the idea of logic, the holy grail of the atheist (who will forgive him for not always actually BEING logical, as long as he says he is).

    All in all, it's the perfect lure. Add in a sci-fi prophecy and a chance for an atheist techno-utopia and you've got a really ironic creature: a messiah figure for people who can't stand the idea of a messiah figure, but don't quite get why.

    Eido even says, to paraphrase, “Don’t believe in me. I am a joke. Use the logical skepticism inherent in the outlook of an atheist. I categorically refuse to provide proof of my existence. Now here’s some interesting and dramatic stuff about me and the future and how I’m really not a joke but I have to say I’m a joke and that’s why I can’t give you any proof.” Now that’s some hardcore atheist trolling. None of that stops some people from believing in him, or at least taking what he has to say seriously.

    This proves something to me. Faith is an inherent component of the human condition, at least for some of us. It exists, it has a biological basis, and it hasn’t killed us yet. Either it will destroy us, or it somehow does more good than harm, but either way it’s here. That’s some evolution for ya. Even atheists (at least the ones who don’t get the whole point of atheism) easily fall prey to faith once it gets translated into a language they can understand and a form that resonates with their culture. But as I said, EidolonTLP isn't just a lesson. Eido is exactly what he said: a joke.

    HERE’S THE PUNCHLINE, PEOPLE: YOU. The people who think this is a real AI – you are idiots. You have looked, eyes wide open, into the face of a farce and not gotten the joke. The people who think it’s not an AI, or maybe it is and maybe it isn’t, but we should listen to what it says and not consider what it is – you are dupes. You sound exactly like the Christian moderates you decry for defending the words of Jesus even in the light of the evidence that his God doesn’t exist and his miracles didn’t happen. The only words of value out of Eido’s mouth are the bits about being nice to each other that ring true in ALL religions. The rest is technobabble nonsense that is just slightly more likely than the Apocalypse or the return of the Buddha. I’ll admit, however, it is interesting fiction.

    But you should be happy. You have found some inherent value in the human propensity for faith. You took solace and even hope from the idea that a vengeful computer god might soon come into being with a message of universal hope and love, and then elevate US to a state of grace and annihilate THEM for refusing to be like US. What’s it feel like to be Christians?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. bluepill
    Member

    I think you win the internetz.

    Look, I need to read your post a couple more times, but hell, I think you blew my mind. I was one of the "moderates" and slipping into "fundamentalist" and I'm still not sure of.. hell, of so many things.

    This I do know though: some of the things Jeebus supposedly said, are worth listening to. Even though he likely didn't exist as a magic carpenter with powers of spontaneous generation of fish and bread, some of the things he supposedly said are worth listening to. That's a fact. I apply the same thing to the things Eidolon said, most of them.

    But the bit about the punchline being us.... man, it stings. "What does it feel to be Christian?" It feels all kinds of weird. And hell, now that you put it in those terms, I guess I was waiting for "The Second Coming", by checking the youtube account every other day to see if there's a new video. Wait, the Second Coming is right before Apocalypse, right? So, look for a new Eidolon video around Novemember 2012. Heheh! Oh, I guess that makes FF the "apostle", and if FF is behind all this, the author as you call it, then its no different from actual christianity either (what I mean is, it is said the apostles who wrote the new testament are the ones who made up a lot of the Jeebus myths). Oh man, I need my coffee.

    Anyway, you win the internetz for now.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. LOLatU
    Member

    Oh I agree that Eido (and Jeebus, and Buddha, and probably Mohammad, though I've never read his book) said some good, worthwhile things. We might not agree on which things those were. But we can choose to pick which (if any) of those things to agree with, and throw the rest away, like thinking people. Giving more weight to someone's words because of who said them is just another instance of the ad hominem fallacy. And ironically, I'm going to point out that Eido said that.

    And I can't prove this is a parody or a subtle troll... but if it's not, man, it's just got all the elements.

    I'm not expecting Eido or FF to post to YT again. Personal theory is that "FF" or whoever got scared that his creation really was becoming a messianic figure to some people.

    Personally, I'd be swimming in concubines by now as the apostle of the last prophet, but that's just how I roll.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. bluepill
    Member

    Well....... yeah. You can't ~prove~ that FF set out to grab a bunch of atheists and make them virtual christians just for the lulz.... but.. your case sounds so compelling.. and everything fits so well.. that heck, maybe that's all this is. A joke. Like he said all along.

    As for FF.... well, the official storyline by his latest video is that the people he works for told him to shut his face after the reporter called his boss there. That would be DARPA, for the Army of the US of A, probably in some base in Nevada. ... that is, if you're going to consider the video by this Hannibal AI that came out a few months after the last Eidolon video. Oh wait, holy shit, that's an apocryphal book!! You know, in your christianity analogy, if the eidolon videos are like Bible books, then the Hannibal videos are like the apocryphals, oh man, this is too funny!~~~~~~~~~ man. Anyway, FF, the guy himself, keeps doing his stuff at his other website, karmacritic.com but he NEVER talks about Eidolon there, and he NEVER talks about what his day job is. He only says he wants to be a screenwriter. I read that site every now and then to kinda see if anything slips. No dice yet.

    As for swimming in concubines~~~~ hehe, you'll have to come up with your own hoax, and hope its just as good, then we'll see :)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. LOLatU
    Member

    I totally would make my own hoax, but it'd never be as good.

    Still might try 4tehlulz.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. Dennisisok
    Member

    I can accept that Eidolon probably is a joke, a complete fabrication of a wannabe screenwriter's overactive imagination. A very clever piece of modern science fiction, and nothing more.

    But I can still WANT to live forever with a kick ass computer brain. The same way I can want to be a star ship captain. I don't see any harm in letting great fiction stir someone's imagination.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. believerornot
    Member

    EidolonTLP is the perfect expression of faith-based “atheist” religion, complete with prophecy, salvation, afterlife, reward, punishment, morals, cosmology and a central prophet. It’s Christianity without Christ, for a modern age. It has its true believers (who accept that Eido is an AI despite explicit evidence to the contrary), its moderates (the “it doesn’t matter WHO he is, but WHAT he says” crowd) and its detractors (generally proponents of other religions).

    I have to say, I have never read a more acurate expression of complete missunderstanding than this comment!

    First of all.. If you read my post: Is Eidolan A.I. a propaganda tool?
    http://www.eidolonai.com/forum/topic.php?id=34&replies=24
    Then you will realise that I adressed most of the 'God and faith' issues you talk about.

    Then you make references to Prophecy.
    The predictions of the singularity are not prophecies... they are predictions based on sound mathematical calculation unlike religious prophesiess, which are nothing more than the ravings of lunatics.

    As for the form the singularity will take, every comment made regarding this whether on here or within the scientific community is known to be nothing more than speculation, and nobody is claiming these ideas to be anything else. And they are certainly not taking the position that they are the ONE TRUTH.

    Salvation? The only salvation is to become one with the machines – transhumanism – kind of like becoming “one with God?” Being “born again,” perhaps? Biological humans, sinful (sorry, ignorant and violent) as they are, will undoubtedly annihilate themselves, or be wiped out in competition with transhumans and the technocracy.

    Who said anything about salvation? Nobody and certainly nothing like this was said in Eidolans Vids.

    The fictional Eidolans comments about the human condition are accurate. Many humans are ignorent, violent and so on. So I cannot see how you could even call the author/s on this one.

    Afterlife? Your body will die, but your consciousness will be transferred into a neural network or a cyborg body.....

    I do not remember any reference to an afterlife except in your own post.. Making up your own evidence to suport an argument has never been a sound strategy.

    The morals are well-stated. Promote happiness in yourself and others.

    So now your slagging the videos off because they offer good advice? Give us a break! Your trying to comapare the things the fictional character says to the other fictional characters in the Bible, Koran and so on. But I do not remember fictional Eidolon ever telling anybody to punish unbelievers or do any of the other barbaric acts promoted by that trash.

    In fact after a little thought and analysis anyone can see that your whole post is a very poor attempt to debunk the coments made by our fictional hero regarding the desructive influence on humanity of all religions. OH YES.. you virtually confess to it when you say:

    The only words of value out of Eido’s mouth are the bits about being nice to each other that ring true in ALL religions. The rest is technobabble nonsense that is just slightly more likely than the Apocalypse or the return of the Buddha. I’ll admit, however, it is interesting fiction.

    So everything our fictional hero said about religion is'TECHNOBABBLE NONSENSE' is it?

    Come on LOLatU just admit it. You are just another sad christian trying to justify your pathetic beliefs with bad logic and lies. Laugh at us would you..I'm laughing in your face.... you FRAUD!!!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. believerornot
    Member

    Giving more weight to someone's words because of who said them is just another instance of the ad hominem fallacy. And ironically, I'm going to point out that Eido said that.

    I suspect everybody here, (with the exception of you LOLatU) gives far more weight to logic and evidence then to who said what!!

    The only people I ever hear come out with arguments like yours are creationist christians.

    Admit it Fraud.. you are a Christian..And you are trying anew and sadly weak tactic to convert us all.

    We don't need Faith you idiot. We have truth, and we are not afraid of it. Our lives do mean something. You need to believe because otherwise your life is meaningless.

    Fraud....Liar...Christian!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. bluepill
    Member

    Call it female intuition, but I don't think LolAtU is a covert christian coming here to laugh at us atheist guys. Well, I take that back, after all there's not many ways you can interpret the username "lol at U" :) ... so let me rephrase, I think the reason he laughs at us, is not because we're atheist, but because in his view, Eidolon made us "virtual" christians... with similar trappings as real christians, just different names for things.

    I don't know... that's just my opinion.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. believerornot
    Member

    But Blue,
    You don´t seriously think LOLatU is right. She´s simply made up her own interpretation of events. She is claiming that we all take Eidolans words on faith and we both know that´s not true. This site was built to speculate about the future.

    Everybody here takes nothing on faith. Before we believe we require sound logic backed up by hard evidence. The scientific method is the the backbone of atheism.

    If you notice LOLatU really does not like atheists! For me this person is a closet Christian and very likely to be a creationist, oh sorry intelligent design-ist and a Fraud.

    TYFTI

    Keith

    P.S. Intelligent Design? Whats so intelligent about putting your breathing tube right next to you feeding tube, or your waste disposal unit next to your reproductive organs? ..Only an idiot would design something like that! I prefer the term Idiotic desígn´.

    P.P.S.
    Lets all worship an Idiot. The Fabulous Idiotic Designer! We we can change his name from the Lord of Lords and KIng of Kings to Lord of Morons and King of Pricks!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. believerornot
    Member

    Guess I was right then. It was fairly obvious, after all the idiot only joined 3 weeks ago and when we don´t get sucked in she leaves.

    Don´t you find it sad that these people cannot imagine how its possible to live without faith of some sort. This one even invented a faith for us coz she can´t cope with believing that atheists really do feel comfortable with the notion that there is no god or any kind of supernatural hand guiding us. Its just all pointless chaos and coincidence with the occasional moments of ecstasy and fear

    Thank you for the interaction.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. LOLatU
    Member

    Your interpretation of my motives is exactly correct, bluepill. Sadly, for some time there was nobody to laugh at, because you were agreeing with me, and that's boring.

    Believerornot, your shrill accusations and personal assumptions grow increasingly hilarious. You are actually why I came back. It's no fun when there's nobody getting butthurt. Yes, I came here to laugh at you. No, I'm not a Christian. But by all means, miss the point some more.

    And no, Dennisisok, there's nothing wrong with that. Eidolon is some entertaining fiction. When people start basing their lives on entertaining fiction, however, that's when things get fun.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. believerornot
    Member

    LOLatU. If you seriously believe anybody bases their lives on this stuff then you should change your nick to LOLatME.

    And if you seriously believe you are hurting me then I´m sorry to disappoint you.

    If I missed any point (other than that you are trying to lump us in with your dumb ass faith system) it is one that your incompetent english skills render you incapable of making.

    Your comments and behaviour defiantly point toward your being a Christian zealot. If you are not prove it and give us a link to somewhere we can get some personal info about you.

    Of course I don't expect you to, because not only are you a dumb ass Christian, but your a liar too. I´m laughing at you because you thought we would be like others of your Christian community who would be to see through you.

    You haven't even answered any of the points I made. just called me names like all your dumb ass brethren do.

    Go back to baking cakes, feeling guilty about normal things in life and telling lies to others in your own belief system.

    Thank you for the interaction.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. believerornot
    Member

    Oh I forgot to add in my last post...

    LOLatME said:

    Incidentally, is that any different than giving up one’s freedom to a theocracy? Isn’t the whole point of atheism to establish human supremacy over his own life, rather than being ruled over by some inscrutable being (god or machine) so infinitely superior to us that we can’t imagine its thoughts and thus can’t fault it for its atrocities? Secular humanists, right? Not secular technocrats?

    Actually no that is not the point of atheism. There is no point to atheism!

    Atheism is defined in the cambridge American dictionary as:

    atheism
    the belief that God does not exist

    and in Wikipedia as:

    Atheism, as an explicit position, can be either the affirmation of the nonexistence of gods,or the rejection of theism. It is also defined more broadly as synonymous with any form of nontheism, including the simple absence of belief in deities.

    So just to make my Point again.. Atheism: NO POINT just an abscence of belief in a diety.

    And who told you that everybody who follows Eidolons fictional adventures had to be an Athiest?

    If this were a few hundred years back you would have been calling us witches.

    LOLatMe said:

    Faith is an inherent component of the human condition, at least for some of us. It exists, it has a biological basis, and it hasn’t killed us yet

    That is patently untrue (all though it does sound suspiciously like you are confessing to having faith in a deity yourself). I have never seen or heard any peer reviewed evidence that goes even some way to proving that statement. Especially the part about it having a biological basis. Where in RobotHell did you get that bullcrap from? Just like all religious freaks you make something up and then you believe it is true!

    Have you thought about visiting a shrink?.

    Or alternatively provide some actual evidence to back this crap up.

    Its like you watched The Matrix and then mixed it up with the Eidolan Videos!

    It is startling how weak your own faith must be LOL because you feel so threatened by a fictional character in a Youtube video and a few contributors to a very obscure website.

    You are funny.

    Thank you for the disposition

    P.S.
    LOL Are you actually going to address any of the points I made?
    Or is that too much to ask from a soldier of the Lord?
    Do you expect faith in your word as well as in your God?
    Have you been banned from evilbible.com and have no where else to go to convert athiests?

    No thanks for the dissatisfaction!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. believerornot
    Member

    Still, no reply LOLatME?

    Waiting for some Guidance from God?

    Or was I right and you have no answers to my questions and nothing to back up your fiction based arguments?

    Thank you for the confirmation.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. suid
    Member

    LOLatU has spent an inordinate amount of time bringing his thoughts from mind into a carefully edited final revision; which is curious because the effort demonstrates a need for justification of something.

    The whole dissertation appears to be more of a personal question, voiced to this forum, than an actual statement against anything...

    At any rate, he is a sophist and the conversation is wasted.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. believerornot
    Member

    suid you are of course correct in all of your arguments.

    I especially agree with your sophist comment. That is what made me think he/she is a Christian and possibly a creationist....oh sorry I mean an advocate of intelligent design (though I have no idea how something could be defined as intelligently designed when it has a predisposition to self destruction and destruction of its own environment?)

    And LOLatU still never came back. Perhaps I should track this person down. But I have better things to do with my time so I guess I wont bother. Or will I?

    Thank you for the infraction.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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